We aren't supposed to write posts to merely applaud another's post.
But, your perspective is fresh and to my way of thinking, accurate.
Nicely done, John.
Mike M.
--- In LivingInThePhilippi
wrote:
>
> I hope that Andre will forgive me if I make a few very brief
> observations in his post.
>
> His view of "welfare" in the UK encompasses - free medical
> treatment, "not going hungry", and not being "abandoned to fate".
He
> asserts that the provision of these things leads to higher crime
> rates, an indefinable malaise, lack of life and spirit, boredom
and
> malcontentment, undermined self respect, and social pathology.
>
> Even if this is true, I am not sure how the link is being made.
Are
> the objectives of Filipinos that different to the Europeans? Is it
> not more likely that the observations of the UK are more a
function
> of richer societies in general than attributable to the welfare
> system?
>
> Filipinos have the extended family to support them. Given that the
> Philippines is a very poor country, I find it amazing that so few
> people are hungry, and very few are "abandoned to their fate". The
> system actually works incredibly well, even though the complex
> interlinking of the dependancies is very hard to understand and
> accept for many a western husband/boyfriend - many of whom seem to
> accept being taxed for State collective provision of welfare in
> their home country, but cannot accept giving freely to the
wife/gf's
> family in a society (which is not taking much tax off them when
they
> are resident in Philippines) which does not provide support
through
> the State.
>
> "Welfare" is just provided differently in the Philippines - it is
a
> family responsibility rather than the State's. There is a lot less
> resource to spread around and the method of delivery of support is
> different.
>
> My (Filipina) wife had 12 brothers and sisters of which 6 died
> between 2 months and 2 years old, and one died as a teenager. I
> suspect that this may not have been that unusual in the 1970s and
I
> bet there are many such tragedies even today. Emergencies and
crises
> involving significant financial resources are very hard to deal
with
> by families in the Philippines. It is a high price to pay to avoid
> the perceived shortcomings around the margins of western
(european)
> societies. Collective provision is more fair and effective at
> redistribution to the neediest in society.
>
> Flicking through my college liberal social studies books - er
> actually I studied biology and genetics but why spoil a good rant -
> i need to point out an inconvenient fact that the vast majority of
> crime statistics in UK are falling, the prisons are jam packed
> already and prison populations are extremely high by international
> standards.
>
> I think Andre and his Filipino medic friend seem to treat welfare
> and charity as dirty words. Where is this Utopia where there is no
> charity or welfare, treatment for the sick and desperate is
> dependant on how much money you have, children die of treatable
> conditions, the old and disabled are left to starve (but will have
> plenty of self respect), but there is an absence of crime .....
and
> liberals? It certainly would not be "boring"!
>
> Thought provoking post though!
>
> JOHN
>
>
>
> --- In LivingInThePhilippi
> <andre_westbrook@
> >
> >
> > Last week, I spoke to a Filipino medic who had spent several
> months
> > in the UK. At first he was highly impressed by what he found; he
> > thought he had encountered a higher civilisation. No one went
> hungry,
> > no one was abandoned to his fate, everyone was treated to the
best
> of
> > the doctor's abilities. No distress, however caused, failed to
> evoke
> > any attemtpt to relieve it.
> >
> > 'If only we could have your welfare system,' he said.
> >
> > Some months later, his views had altered considerably. He had
> noticed
> > a strange indefinable malaise among many of the Brits he.
Although
> > fortunate by the standards of Manila slum-dwellers, they lacked
> life
> > and spirit. They were bored and malcontent, and yet apparently
> > unwilling to do anything to alleviate their situation. It did
not
> > take him long to make a connection between this state of
suspended
> > but disgruntled animation and the welfare system which,
initially,
> he
> > had thought so humane.
> >
> > The idea behind giving people welfare is noble. It was too
> alleviate
> > the dire social and economic conditions countries like America,
> > Britian and Germany found themselves in during the 1930s. And
who
> > would wish for a return to 1930s style unemployment and
> depression?
> > But the fact is welfare undermines notions of self-respect and
> over
> > time cultivates a social pathology which in America ultimately
> > required zero tolerance to even begin to turn back the tide of
> anti-
> > social behaviour on the streets of large American cities.
> >
> > Undoubtedly, there are those posters who will flick through
their
> > college books on liberal social studies courses and insist that
> there
> > is a statistical relationship between poverty and crime. In
fact,
> the
> > explosion of crime in countries as diverse as Brazil and the UK
is
> > soley down to a weakening of law and order and ineffective
courts
> > which give sentences that are too lenient.
> >
> > What the Filipnions do not need is yet more welfare and charity
> from
> > those who insist that all Westerners in the Philippines
> have "excess
> > finances". I am sure there are many here who go to the
Philippines
> > with no more than a pension and some savings to live on. If so,
do
> > not allow the liberals here to persuade you that you are
obligated
> to
> > give, give and give again. Do not let them persuade you that to
> judge
> > people as unworthy of your help is a sin - to give money to an
> idle
> > man is to encourage him in his idleness just as to give money to
> the
> > drunk is simply to prolong his dependence on alcohol. Above all,
> > insist that if you do give money it is spent on something useful
> or
> > worthwhile and that it is for the highest good of all concerned.
> >
>
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